MucheDumbre

In July 2002, Condoleezza Rice, national security adviser to former President George W. Bush, verbally approved the water-boarding of an al Qaeda terrorist named Abu Zubaydah.  On August 1st, after ignoring dissenting legal opinion on the legality of water-boarding and whether it was ethical or even productive, then-Attorney General John Ashcroft, then-White House counsel Alberto Gonzales and the Justice Department gave the green light to water-board Abu Zubaydah in what is now being called the ‘‘torture memos’. One memo, dated August 2002, grants authorization to use “harsh interrogation techniques” on a high-ranking terrorist( Abu Zubaydah) on the grounds that previous methods had not been working.

Zubaydah was water-boarded 83 times  that month.

According to many, including Marc Thiessen President Bush’s former speech writer, the technique was a success. Jose Padilla was apprehended in Chicago on May 8,2002 because of information learned through Zubaydah’s water-boarding sessions.

The problem with this is, in May 2002 Condelezza Rice hadn’t yet given her verbal authorization to water-board and the Justice Department, along with Gonzales and Ashcroft hadn’t yet given the written authority. Rice’s authorization wouldn’t come for another 2 months and the ‘Torture memo’ authorizing  the water-boarding would not be written for another month after that. If Abu Zubaydah gave interrogators the information needed to apprehend Jose Padilla, he did it without being water-boarded or he was water-boarded without consent of the NSA,White House or the justice department.“

one of the top

three leaders

in the [al-Qaeda] organization.

Another question raised is, if Abu Zubaydah was cooperating  and had already given up the information that lead to Padilla’s capture in May, then why did he need to be water-boarded 83 times in August?

In a story from CBS news, dated March 29, 2009, a former senior government officials said that not only was the information Abu Zubaydah gave after being tortured worthless, but it also caused the FBI and CIA to run aimlessly around the globe chasing made up shadows.

President Bush, in order to justify what he was allowing to take place, called Abu Zubaydah “al Qaeda’s chief of operations” and “one of the top three leaders in the organization.”

Not long after his capture though, this was found to be inaccurate..

Abu Zubaida was not even an official member of al Qaeda, according to a portrait of the man

Image via Wikipedia

that emerges from court documents and interviews with current and former intelligence, law enforcement and military sources. Rather, he was a “fixer” for radical Muslim ideologues, and he ended up working directly with al Qaeda only after Sept. 11 – and that was because the United States stood ready to invade Afghanistan.

This is not to say Zubaydah wasn’t a criminal or even part of a terrorist conspiracy, but he was not what he was water-boarded for. He was being water-boarded, so they told us, because he was the number 3 in al Qaeda, he wasn’t cooperating and he knew things that would help us stop the next wave of the attacks.

a senior terrorist leader

and a trusted associate of Osama bin Laden

But was he a high-ranking Al Qeada member with close ties to Osama Bin Laden? Was he uncooperative under normal interrogations? Author Ron Suskind wrote, which the Washington Post has confirmed, that President Bush was so invested in Zubayduh that another question that be must be asked is; is it possible that his ties to Bin Laden or his level of cooperation really didn’t matter at some point?

Suskind writes in his book, “The One Percent Doctrine” which Barton Gellman reviews, that not only was Zubayduh just the ‘go-to guy’ for minor purposes, but  he was also mentally ill.

Abu Zubaydah, his captors discovered, turned out to be mentally ill and nothing like the pivotal figure they supposed him to be. CIA and FBI analysts, poring over a diary he kept for more than a decade, found entries “in the voice of three people: Hani 1, Hani 2, and Hani 3″ — a boy, a young man and a middle-aged alter ego. All three recorded in numbing detail “what people ate, or wore, or trifling things they said.” Dan Coleman, then the FBI’s top al-Qaeda analyst, told a senior bureau official, “This guy is insane, certifiable, split personality.”

During this time President Bush’s outward proclamations were that we had captured a major leader in Bin Laden’s network. Privately though he wasn’t so sure, at one point even asking George Tenet “‘I said he was important,’

…’You’re not going to let me lose face on this, are you?’

To which Tenet replied, “‘No Sir, Mr. President.’”

The Chinese used water-boarding as a way not to get their enemies to confess their crimes, but to get them to confess to things they had not done. In the middle of 2002, what was going on that would require someone to force a person to falsely confess to something?

The Bush administration applied relentless pressure on interrogators to use harsh methods on detainees in part to find evidence of cooperation between al Qaida and the late Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein’s regime, according to a former senior U.S. intelligence official and a former Army psychiatrist.

It’s true that a link from those responsible for the 9/11 attack  to Saddam Hussein would have made the case for the war in Iraq that much easier, but is that the reason for Zubaydah’s treatment?

In 2002, this country was still reeling from the attacks only a few months earlier, crews were still digging out ground zero and our hearts were still broken into pieces as we remembered  those flag-draped remains being brought home to those who loved them. Would we have tortured anyone to get  any information telling us who, why and if there was another attack coming?

When Zubaydah was water-boarded in 2002, the CIA video-taped it. Some of the question we have today could be answered by just reviewing those tapes. Unfortunately, the CIA’s director, Michael Hayden had them destroyed for security reasons. But there are many principals left who can answer some of these questions.

ABC News Video

One of the 1st questions being, why was the Vice President the one to  give the order to use these techniques and where was President Bush during these discussions and decisions?

Allah had visited

him in his cell

during the night and

told him to cooperate,”

Do we ‘cross the Rubicon’ as my colleague says and open an investigation of the previous administration? And if by doing so, do we damn all other Presidents who come after him? Dick Cheney wants more memo’s released so that his side of the story can be told. But will he stand before congress and give his side under oath is the question. Judging by the last time his administration was under oath in in front of Congress..

In several hours before the Judiciary Committee on Thursday, Gonzales said he had done nothing improper in firing the eight prosecutors, but conceded the case had been badly handled. At the same time, he said 71 times that he either could not recall or did not remember conversations or events surrounding the dismissals.

The answer to that question is not as clear as it should be.

Abu Zubaydah was captured in 2002, he was water-boarded 83 times in August 2002 for not cooperating with interrogators even though 3 months earlier he had given enough information for officials to arrest Jose Padilla. A CIA operative involved in handling high-value al Qaeda targets, John Kiriakou now retired, told ABC News that what happened to Zubaydah was in fact torture, but it was also necessary. He goes on to say  the water-boarding was so effective that Zubaydah broke within 35 seconds and the next day told investigators  that “Allah had visited him in his cell during the night and told him to cooperate” and that… “From that day on, he answered every question,”

If Zubaydah broke after only 35 seconds, broke to the point where he spoke with Allah and Allah told him to answer every question then why did he need to be water-boarded an additional 82 times that month?  The Chinese used water-boarding to make their victims give false confessions.  What question did he either refuse to answer or not know the answer too?

Before the release of the ‘torture memos’ Kiriakou was sure about the number of water-boardings and even had actual quotes made by Zubaydah, but after the memo’s release, ABC contacted him and he had this to say

When I spoke to ABC News in December 2007 I was aware of Abu Zubaydah being water boarded on one occasion. It was after this one occasion that he revealed information related to a planned terrorist attack. As I said in the original interview, my information was second-hand. I never participated in the use of enhanced techniques on Abu Zubaydah or on any other prisoner, nor did I witness the use of such techniques.”

So who has the 1st hand information on this session where these comments were made? Who can answer if  Zubaydah was tortured before NSA Rice gave a verbal nod allowing it? Who can answer if Zubaydah was in fact cooperating with interrogators 3 months before the “Torture memo’s” were even put to paper? Who can answer if he really broke after only 35 seconds of one session or if he needed an additional 82 more before he gave information that had the CIA and FBI running all over the world to confirm? Did traditional interrogation methods work with Zubaydah? Did he give up the information he had on Jose Padilla and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, did the Bush Administration really get ‘actionable intelligence’ from by using these ‘enhanced’ techniques? The man who really was there, Ali Soufan says he questioned Zubaydah from March to June 2002 using traditional methods and he was successful in gathering actionable intelligence and the information Zubaydah gave up on KSM and Jose Padilla came before he was water-boarded in 83 times in August. Mr. Soufan goes on to say that not only were the enhanced technique unnecessary and useless, they even created a wall between the FBI and the CIA, similar to wall that impeded the sharing of information before 9/11. It was so detrimental to the rival bureaus that the person who knew Khalid Shaikh Mohammad more than anyone else in the government, was  not allowed to speak with him.

There are so many questions that need to be answered and we know the principals involved who need to be asked.  But the biggest question of all is, do we really want the answers? Do we really want to go down that road and if so, just how far are we willing travel on it?

Related articles by Zemanta

• How the Bush administration waterboarded a low-level operative, who was brain-damaged, 83 times (americablog.com)
• FBI Zubaydah Interrogator Calls George Bush a Liar: “No Actionable Intelligence Gained from Using Enhanced Interrogation Techniques” (firedoglake.com)
• Rice approved CIA waterboarding (news.bbc.co.uk)
• Released memos don’t answer age-old question: Does torture work? (seattletimes.nwsource.com)

It’s like a gift ..

Ex-press secretary decries ’secretive’ White House

Former presidential spokesman Scott McClellan on Friday said President Bush has lost the public’s trust by failing to open up about his administration’s mistakes and backtracking on a promise be up front about the leak of CIA operative Valerie Plame’s identity.

“This is a very secretive White House … There’s some things that they would prefer not to be talked about,” McClellan said.

that makes me want to smile and set myself on fire at the same time..

State Department official Richard Armitage first revealed Plame’s CIA identity to columnist Robert Novak, who used former presidential aide Karl Rove as a confirming source for a 2003 article in which he outed Plame. Around that time Wilson, was criticizing the march to war in Iraq.

*close box before striking match*

except…… except….. Karl Fucking Rove told Matt Cooper .. why is it MSM forget this part? Who cares about Novak. He was’t the only one to get the goods from the treasonous employees of the White House. It was a black-op with the objective being to discredit Joe Wilson because he dared to tell the world that the administration was lying, that many people were involved in.

yes…. yes it was..

“My belief is … it was part of the effort to discredit Ambassador Wilson,” McClellan said.

WA-BOW!

I have had this agruement more than any other in my adult life… The man convicted of doing just this, Scooter Libby has said the same exact thing. So what could there be to argue? oh my naive little children… you don’t know how far a ’supporter’ will go to show that these people are not treasonous scum who will leak the name of our spies in a time of war…for political reasons.

“I don’t see how this would discredit Wilson. So it can’t be true.”

“If they really wanted to discredit him, why do it this way? Why not do it another way, so it can’t be true”

my answer is the same as it ever was. I have no fucking clue why they chose this way, but the facts are they did.. end of story… move along nothing to see here…Elvis has left the building.

What more is it going to take?

Former Bush press secretary Scott McClellan told Congress under oath Friday what he never said from the White House lectern – that top officials misled the country about Iraq and are still concealing the truth about leaking a CIA operative’s name.

“The vice president has information that has not been shared publicly,” Mr. McClellan said. “You could go down the list, from Scooter Libby to Karl Rove, Ari Fleischer. There are others that have not shared everything they know about this.”

is this enough?

Bush and Cheney made up Intel, went against security reports, out and out fabricated (lied) and exaggerated the threat

what does it take to impeach an administration or to scare a President into in quitting before being impeached? Some tapes, a break in and a blow job. But lying about reasons to go to war, inflaming the public to get support for a war, leaking the name of an undercover CIA operative working on WMD’s because you don’t like what her husband said and then lying about that, and secrecy beyond the priory of sion will get you nothing but billions and billions in gov’t supplying,rebuilding, and security contracts.

The Dems made a promise not to impeach Bush when they were trying to take over congress. Ok, I can see that. They wanted to win but if people thought they were just going to ‘Bush-hate’ well then they might not get elected. So fine, they make a vow to leave him alone. Here’s what I don’t get. Why keep that vow? Obviuosly Bush doesn’t mind backing away from his promises. He doesn’t mind exaggerating when it serves his purpose or helps him get what he wants. So why in the hell are the Dems such pussies?

the state of political affairs in this country is disgusting. We have an administration who will lie to the media, the international community and the country and even while under oath

Mr. McClellan said, adding that Congress should push for testimony from more senior officials but shouldn’t take Mr. Rove at his word even if they get him under oath.

can’t be trusted. Not too mention is so out of touch with what’s going on that if it wasn’t so comical it would be sad. …and that’s just the one side. On the other we have an approval rating that is lower than the presidents, a rush to get anyone elected even if he isn’t worthy of the job and may infact be detrimental to the country and a fear that if they actually stand up for what is right and just, then it will be them who is run out of town for breaking their word. All while the country goes to shit and a jar of instant coffee goes up to $9.69 a jar.

where did we go wrong?

Can all this destruction be blamed on the greed and blood-lust of 2-3 purely evil men? Some say no, it all started when Clinton was in office, he’s the one to blame for where we are now because he could have killed OBL and didn’t. He brought down this country when he had an affair in the white house and then lied about it.

really?

Was Mark Foley his fault?
Was Larry Craig his fault?
Did he turn Haggard into a queer junkie?
Was Bob Allen ‘pure and moral’ before Clintion debauched him?

Did Clinton force Cheney to give Haliburton billions in contracts and then force Halliburton and KBR to steal from the goverment?

Did Clinton force George Bush to take 5 days to get water to New Orleans?

Did Clinton force Alberto Gonzales to lie before congress?

Did Clinton leak a top secret document to the press without informing the DIC for two weeks that he had declassified it through that leak?

Did Clinton leave afghanistan to go to war with iraq just because he wanted to?

Did Clinton write the unconstitutional Patriot Act and force it into law with more scare-tactics.

How is any of this Clinton’s doing? And how in the hell have we stayed silent and let this go on and on and on? Where is your life now? Are you happy with your job and your paycheck? Are you happy with you medical insurance and the state of medicine today? How about food and gas prices, are they good for you? Your house? Still a good value to it?

There is joke that goes something like

A man was in a flood and he prayed for god to help him
As the waters rose and he was forced to his roof a man came by in a boat and asked him if he needed help.
The man on the roof replied “No thank you , God will protect me”
Hours later the waters were over his roof and he was forced to climb into a tall tree and a helicopter came by him and threw a rope down to him. The man looked up and said
“No thank you, God will protect me”
Hours later with the house gone and the tree gone and nothing left to hold on to, the man drowned.
When he reached heavan he went straight to god and asked him why.
God I prayed to you for help and you left me there to drown..why?

And God replied…. You asshole I sent you a boat and a helicopter what more did you want me to do!

From the moment those planes slammed into the towers and we all watched as our fearless leader sat there in stunned silence pondering the meaning of ‘The Pet Goat” we’ve been warned what was to come. Scott McClellan is just the latest in a long line of life-lines that we have been given but choose to ignore until something bigger or better comes along. When is it enough? Is it that we are content in knowing that in just a few short months the nightmare will be over and we can wake up in Utopia again? I know the Dems are a peace lovin bunch…. But are we delusional too?

Of course we are.

We’ve let things go for this long…so of course we are.

$9.69 for a can of Folgers instant coffee… The State of our Union is stuck on suck.